Thomas Bruns`s creative vision has given life to over 1,000 concerts, projects, and opera productions in collaborating with Berlin’s most esteemed cultural institutions. He initiated co-operations between the various actors to connect Berlin’s independent scene with Berlin’s cultural institutions. Together with Ensemble KNM Berlin, he develops concert projects worldwide.
Since 2016, Thomas Bruns and Ensemble KNM have focused on fostering global musical connections with a multi-perspective approach. The ensemble tackles the challenges of globalization through innovative concepts and intercultural collaborations encompassing Argentina, India, Japan, Cambodia, Korea, Mexico, and Taiwan. With over 18 CDs in its discography, the ensemble was awarded the German Record Critics’ Prize in 2021, 2009, and 2010 for its collaboration with composer Beat Furrer and Christophe Bertrand.
In this interview with Thomas Bruns, we explore what it was like to be a student in East Berlin, the cultural exchange between East and West Germany, and the projects and creative endeavors of the KNM Ensemble.
— Please introduce yourself to the readers.
I see myself as a producer and programmer with a special interest in topics such as space in its acoustic, musical, and social aspects. I enjoy working on long-term projects, preferably with the musicians of the KNM Berlin ensemble.
— I read on the Ensemble KNM`s website that you studied guitar at the Hanns Eisler Hochschule für Musik. You’ve since transitioned from being a performer to a curator. Could you share what motivated this change in your professional path?
We started the ensemble in 1988 during the complicated transformation time in Germany, and our career really started at the beginning of the 90s. In the mid-90s, I stopped playing guitar and teaching music (back then, I was employed in a music school) because there was already a big workload related to KNM. I had the feeling that I that I had to quit something because I found myself in various roles: I was a performer, a programmer, a light designer, a stage designer, and a technician. In this multi-role context, when on stage, you cannot really focus on the actual sound production. You start having problems with yourself, the audience, and, most importantly, with the quality of the performance.
So, I asked myself what is your best talent? I felt more comfortable behind the stage and decided not to focus on the performing aspect of my work. It’s quite typical for a lot of ensemble directors to have backgrounds as musicians.
— Let’s talk about your student years, particularly atHanns Eisler Hochschule für Musik. What was it like to be a student back then?
My guitar professor Dieter Rumstig, was also a music dramaturge at the former Theatre im Palast (TIP) in Berlin. This theatre was an important venue for experimental theatre and music in the 1970s and 1980s. Through my professor, I very quickly met the most important personalities in the new music world and was involved in several productions as a student. I got to know Luigi Nono, Leo Brouwer, attended the premiere of Helmut Lachenmann’s Salut für Caudwell for two guitars, and so on. That was important for me and those experiences were responsible for much of what I’ve learned.
Keep in mind that it was a completely different situation at the time of my studies, the last years of East Germany.
All that we did and our interest in contemporary music was against the official directions in East Berlin and there was no official interest, at all, in contemporary music. We were quite opposed to what was offered to students at the Hanns Eisler Hochschule für Musik.
— In this regard let me ask if there were any cultural exchanges between East and West Berlin or between East and West Germany? If yes, how difficult was it to facilitate such exchanges?
This was really complicated for institutions but not for individuals. A lot of East Germans had relatives in the West, so it was not hard to get information. One could watch western TV in Berlin, (but unfortunately, not in Dresden).
Also, I believe that some East Berlin based composers traveled to West Berlin or West Germany to participate in conferences, concerts, and other activities. Naturally, the avant-garde scene in East Germany was influenced by these Western interactions.
I remember a funny story: when we began performing with the ensemble, we initially played music composed by our friends. Later, we decided to add Anton Webern’s version of Arnold Schoenberg’s Chamber Symphony. At some point, we received a letter from the publishers asking where we had obtained the score. They wanted to ensure we hadn’t copied it. Of course, a friend of mine had bought the scores for us in West Germany.
— Can you share how you found interesting scores for the early performances of KNM?
I researched them with Juliane Klein. She is a composer and publishing director. Together, we founded the ensemble, and through the network of young composers, found many interesting pieces, different perspectives, and influences. Juliane and I went several times to Dresden, where there was a huge library of scores and spent a lot of time searching materials. In Berlin, it was not possible to find such a library with contemporary works.
Also, through my connection with the TiP (Theatre in the Palast), I was invited as a performer to a John Cage evening given by the S.E.M. Ensemble from New York. The S.E.M. Ensembl was founded in 1970 by the Czech composer Petr Kotik, who got to know John Cage, Morton Feldman, Christian Wolff, and other big American names.One evening, I was invited on a tour with the S.E.M. Ensemble as a guitarist. Later, I organized very big events with John Cage’s music for Petr Kotik in Berlin, for example a performance of Atlas Eclipticalis for 86 musicians with Peter Kotik as the conductor. David Tudor played John Cage’s Winter Music at the same concert.
At that time, I was very influenced by Cage’s philosophy. This is tied to my personal background, as I come from a family of classical musicians. I had to carve out my path amidst this. Exploring Cage’s work helped me find my own way to musical freedom and have a more open perspective.
— Please tell us more about the KNM Ensemble and what inspired you to co-found it. Also, share a bit about its mission and vision.
The original name is Kammerensemble Neue Musik Berlin. The founding impulse was that new music concerns everyone. In the late 80s, there was a tendency to have a democratic understanding of music making. The idea of “new” was very clear at the time and meant new experiences for us and our audience in a rigid and uniform GDR era. Over time, the “new” as an identity-forming idea lost its power, especially when we started working in an international context. This is why the name was later changed to Ensemble KNM and the “new” remains hidden as an abbreviation.
We began performing young composers, aiming to give them a platform to present their work. That was our strongest impulse. From the start, we envisioned our performances not just as concert music but as works that interact with and respond to the space. Initially, our focus was on the performance space itself, and the concert setting.
Later, we got influenced by Dieter Schnebel and his Fluxus performances (ed. an open work concept in which musicians are invited to perform actions in space through unconventional use of their instruments and voices). This influence was significant, and it affected our larger concerts in 1995 and 1996. These concerts were designed as complete experiences, integrating lighting, staging, and costumes. This approach to engaging with the space became even more pronounced in the following decade, particularly when we performed in semi-public spaces. During the 90s and early 2000s, Berlin was filled with empty spaces due to the chaotic property market, which further shaped our approach.
— How do you approach programming concerts today? Could you share your process for selecting pieces and combining them into a cohesive program?
The main question I always try to answer is:
why should people attend this concert, and why should they come to this concert venue? What should be the reason for attending the concert in person and not just buying the CD or having a quick look at YouTube?
In Berlin, where the cultural scene is highly saturated, a concert program needs to stand out to attract attention. This can be achieved by featuring composers who are rarely performed in the city, highlighting renowned names, or presenting works within a unique socio-political context. I wish I could say that good music alone is enough, but unfortunately, that’s not always the case.
— What challenges do contemporary music ensembles face today, particularly in Europe or specifically in Berlin, and how have you addressed these challenges based on your experience?
The biggest challenge we are confronted with, (and I think I can speak for all my colleagues), is how to keep an ensemble going over several years. That’s the main issue. We are all project funded and in over 30 years, we haven’t had institutional funding. We used to apply for funding every two years, but nowadays we do it every year to get basic funding for our infrastructure (office rent, computers, rehearsal fees etc.) As usual, there’s no guarantee of securing funding since it depends on the jury’s decision. At the beginning of KNM Berlin, half the ensemble had worked in local orchestras for 10 or 12 years. That gave us a lot of freedom, and we could take lower paying jobs. The reality nowadays is that none of us receive fixed salaries. We all work as freelancers; I am one of them as well. So, if we don’t work, we don’t earn any income.
— How can audience engagement be maintained, given the highly saturated contemporary art and music scene, with multiple high-quality, contemporary music concerts competing for audience attention (there were around six other concerts held alongside the KCMD&KNM concert last year and that doesn’t include concerts of other music genres, theater events, exhibitions, three opera houses, and eight orchestras)?
I don’t know. I always fought for Berlin not to have such diversity. I am thinking of a Vienna model with KlangforumWien [chamber orchestra]. Of course, Berlin is bigger with more culturally diverse influences. However, it would be nice to have such a big and strong ensemble as Vienna and not to divide the financial resources among all who are interested.
I am, of course, not speaking from the perspective of my colleagues, but thinking about how to develop a scene in Berlin. Two or three big institutions should be enough in Berlin. Give them power so they could build something bigwhere all involved people feel safe and can earn decent money, and not fight ultra-liberal ideas that we all keep fighting. But I think that the discussion is over, and it goes as it goes.
— Is there something that you will never program?
It’s a very easy question to answer, although I don’t like this answer. I would never discuss the struggle between Palestine and Israel. You can only lose in Germany if you go in this direction. I don’t see a productive way to approach the theme and find a possibility to go the right way. I understand that for a lot of people, it’s problematic, but I have no solution for that. How could I really bring this topic into a program?
The second thing that I wouldn’t program is a Russian composer these days. There are a lot of Russian composers being programmed now, and the situation in Ukraine seems to have been forgotten.
— One of your projects that caught my eye is KINDER ENTDECKEN NEUE MUSIK, a fascinating event where the KNM Ensemble presented contemporary music to kids. What was the goal behind the project, and what kind of feedback did you receive from kids and their parents?
While teaching at the Faculty of Cultural Management in Hamburg, I asked students to create a marketing programme for our concert series, Tiepolo and the World. They suggested making videos with cats and kids to attract clicks, and although it was unconventional for us, we tried it — leading to sold-out concerts and the success of the subproject.
Besides this, we have a long history of working with children and teenagers. Over the years, we have had several programs where we have worked with school classes and tried different approaches. I recall one project where an author wrote a story, and then we worked with the kids to create music out of a story. Another approach was conducting interviews with children, asking them about various noises to make them more aware of the sounds in their environment. For example, we’d ask questions like “Can you remember the sound of your home keys this morning?” This would get them thinking, “Oh, my keys, yes…” and then they’d listen more closely. The project focused on connecting memory and everyday noises with musical instruments, helping kids to realize that instruments aren’t distant objects and that they can be a natural part of their daily lives.
We repeated these activities with different school classes, involving both younger and older students. Finally, in 2011, Rebecca Lenton — flute player with KNM — founded the KNM Campus Ensemble, the only ensemble that works with amateurs, bringing together participants of all ages, from as young as 10 to as old as 60.
— Another project that I found interesting is LISTENING CITIES, especially the KYIV edition. Can you explain what the project was about and why you decided to make this project happen?
Shortly, it’s based on the Greek concept of “polis,” which means that a city or region isn’t just a geographical area but a community where people live and interact. It’s about the communication and relationships among people. This ancient Greek understanding of a city influenced our approach, so it wasn’t just about providing a platform for composers or simply sharing their work. We also wanted to explore the idea of distance. We learned about some places in Ukraine from the media but thought that personal stories would demonstrate different perspectives of those places.
— What concert of the KNM Ensemble is the most memorable for you?
Our performance at Carnegie Hall has an interesting backstory. It was originally envisioned as a six-hour event inspired by our Hausmusik project in Berlin. The idea was to host performances in various non-traditional venues. However, due to logistical challenges and union rules, we ultimately settled on a multi-hour concert at Zankel Hall, all in one location with two intermissions. The concert itself was a journey through musical history with influences from Berlin, starting with Schoenberg and Varese and continuing with pieces by Peter Ablinger, Luigi Nono, and Helmut Lachenmann’s Intérieur I. We even commissioned new works for piano and voice that reflected American stories and invited a German poet to write a new piece about cities and metropolises. The evening became a reflection on the idea of the city, its connections to other cities, and the traces we leave behind. It wasn’t exactly what we had initially envisioned, but it came together.
The second event I’d like to highlight is one we organized in Cambodia, where we collaborated with Argentine composer Ana Maria Rodriguez and local Cambodian dancers. It was a fascinating experience because Cambodia has a very different culture, with virtually no contemporary music scene. The challenge was to bring our group to Cambodia and then arrange for a Cambodian dance group to come to Berlin. This exchange was particularly significant because the dance group we worked with was the first openly gay dance group in Cambodia. They reinterpreted traditional Cambodian female dance, which is typically performed by women, and presented it through male dancers. This made their performance more abstract yet incredibly beautiful — reminiscent of Indian dance but slower and more deliberate.
What stands out most about this event was the ritual that took place on the day of our first performance in Cambodia. The choreographer and head of the company, Prumsodun Ok, invited us to participate in a morning ritual that lasted from 8 a.m. until 1 p.m. — a full five hours dedicated to setting the right mood for the evening’s performance.
In Western Europe, this would typically be the busiest time, with last-minute preparations and a general rehearsal. But it was the complete opposite in Cambodia. This time was reserved for quiet concentration and spiritual preparation. The ritual involved five traditional musicians playing continuously, an altar with offerings to Buddha, two women dancing, and a relaxed atmosphere with eating and drinking. It was all about calming the mind and body, recognizing the importance of the evening’s performance, and creating a connection between the performers and the audience.
Reflecting on this experience made me think deeply about our own traditions of music-making in the Western business world. Approaching a performance with this kind of openness is something I’ll carry with me for the rest of my life, both personally and professionally. It’s also why I’m a strong advocate for more rehearsal time, even though I know this approach can sometimes be at odds with musician’s mindset.
This material was created and published thanks to a grant from the Shevchenko Scientific Society of America to The Claquers Media.
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