A Long Conversation with Andreas Scholl, a German Countertenor

Oleksandr Ostrovskyi

5 days ago

On 22 November, Andreas Scholl, one of the world’s most famous countertenors, made his first visit to Ukraine as part of Kyiv Baroque Fest. During the week, the musician lived inKyiv, held rehearsals and master classes, and shared his reflections in a video diary on his official Facebook page.

The day after the festival closed, Andreas had time to record this interview for The Claquers. It’s a sincere conversation about his experience of staying and performing in Ukraine, about music and politics, about the peculiarities of a countertenor voice, and, ultimately, about synth-pop andelectronic music.

Andreas Scholl. Photo by Kostyantyn Homon

— I prepared questions for our interview but would like it to be like a conversation. I think we can talk more about you and music this way. First, I want to ask you about your reasons to come to Ukraine during the war.

As you can imagine, I followed the news and saw what was happening in Ukraine. I saw the Russian invasion of Ukraine. It’s a great injustice and against international humanitarian law. I was shocked and couldn’t believe that this was happening in the 21st century. I thought Russia was a civilized country that could solve its problems with negotiations and not violence.

Then I read Roman Melish’s Facebook post and comments from others on the situation and saw desperation. My student in Salzburg, Tetyana Dew, asked me to organize a charity concert. We had a big concert in the Cathedral of Salzburg, performed Pergolesi’s Stabat Mater, and raised money. I did something quite early but still felt helpless.

I saw an opportunity when Roman Melish contacted me last year, in November. I said, “What do you think about me coming and doing a masterclass or a concert?” My idea was that solidarity in writing is good and necessary but doing something is better. I thought I would go there, teach a master class, and sing a concert. I’m very happy that I did this.

— When we talk about people coming to Ukraine these days, it always turns into questions about politics. When we Ukrainians talk with Westerners, we need to watch our language and use careful words so that we don’t hurt their feelings. Prior to this interview, I was worried about how to speak about politics with you. But you have a very strong position and your coming to Ukraine speaks volumes about it.

I’ve made a political statement. I was invited to go to Moscow for a concert a month ago and my agent had already written to me, saying, “Andreas, I assume that we must decline this”. I agreed that I couldn’t sing in Moscow now. I am sorry. Most likely I will not perform in Russia anymore, until the end of my career, but it’s not that I don’t like Russian audiences and everything.

The reasons Russians claimed the war started have already changed at least ten times. They claimed that they started the war because they were afraid of a NATO expansion, that there were Nazis in Ukraine, and that Ukraine never existed and always belonged to Russia. You can see this propaganda on the Russian Media Monitor news channel, where you can watch Russian TV programs and talk shows. They try all kinds of propaganda there.

However, the reason is very clear to me. There are international borders, and they must be respected. A country invaded another country.

The aim of the Russian invasion was to capture Kyiv. Russian paratroopers landed in Hostomel and their intentions were clear. There was nothing about fear of NATO in it. “We want to take this country because we think it belongs to us”.

That was the simple reason why the invasion happened. Right now, for example, there are very few troops stationed at the NATO border between Russia and Poland because Russia knows that NATO will not attack them. It’s a joke. They keep the story alive to have some fig leaf and not to look too stupid. Russians just needed to give some reasons for their invasion of Ukraine.

This breaking of international law was very simple. If somebody breaks into my neighbor’s house, I want to help my neighbor and wouldn’t care about provoking the burglars too much. I had to make a clear choice, and I made it.

— I thought about other artists and musicians who were afraid to come to Ukraine. In your video blog, you said that they need to come because of the isolation of people here, which you felt. There could be other reasons for their fear. Sometimes, people who don’t have views like yours talk about “peace for all”. They also might fear losing the big Russian market, where they could return after the war. They might be just worrying about their future business.

Absolutely. It could be their strategic decision to make compromises.

— Aren’t you concerned about this?

I’m 57 and wish and hope that I can sing for another ten years, which would be sensational. I’m aware that decisions that I’ve made regarding performing in Russia would have different consequences for younger singers than for me. At the same time, the decisions I’ve made are like old-fashioned choices between right and wrong.

I thought about it a lot. I had wonderful concerts in Moscow and liked the audiences there. I was sure, when this war started, that people who attended my concerts as well as other intellectuals and intelligent people, would go onto the streets, protest the war, and it would be over in one or two weeks. After all, the Russian population says, “We don’t want this war”. Nothing happened. The polls show that Putin has a 70 to 80% approval rate, and the Russians believe what’s happening in Ukraine is right.

I don’t punish anyone if I don’t go and sing there. My decision wouldn’t have the same consequences as, for example, if you said, “We won’t sell water, and people would starve”. Surely, nobody cares in Moscow if I don’t go and sing there. However, it’s my choice not to go there anymore because it will offend my Ukrainian friends.

This was a choice I’ve made. I can live with it and don’t fear any financial problems. There are plenty of other countries that don’t invade other countries in which I can sing. If half the world would start invading each other, such decisions would be more complicated. However, for the moment, it’s quite simple.

— In Ukraine, if not official, there is a moral consensus about canceling Russian culture. We don’t listen to or perform Russian music anymore. What’s your opinion about culture canceling? Is it possible to cancel a culture, and is it necessary now?

Generally, I think it’s not good to cancel a culture if it’s not political. If culture becomes political, we must be aware that my going to sing in Moscow could also be used as a political statement.

When I was 18 or 19, I traveled to France and stayed with a friend. There was a family celebration with my friend’s grandmother and grandfather, and I participated in all the activities. During that party, my friend’s mother came up to me and said, “I am so embarrassed and so sorry, but my mother-in-law requested that she didn’t want to have a German guy at their celebration”. I respected her request to leave and left. I understand that if you have experienced something terrible at the hands of a German, then that carries something with it.

The other grandfather of my friend was a champagne wine farmer, Andre Bouquet. I will never forget how I walked into his house, and he said to me: “Oh, Andreas, I’m Andre” and he hugged me. He prepared a bottle of champagne for me and showed me how the cork goes in and so on. So, that’s the other side.

We know that Germany was not very well liked after World War II. Still, there were politicians in Germany and other countries, like Konrad Adenauer and Charles de Gaulle, who said that this needs to change and that we need to do something about it. The population in Germany and France did not like it, but they proposed making Twin Cities. The young people need to meet and talk with each other. Now the strongest European friendship that Germans have is with France. It shows what is possible.

We don’t need to weigh the horrors of war, but I would say that Germany still leads the charts in damaging the rest of the world, killing Jews and everything. If I go to Israel, I’m welcome, even though World War II was not that long ago. That is a sign of hope.

I understand the cancellation of culture while this war is ongoing, because otherwise it could be seen as a triumph of the other side. It’s easy for me, as an outsider, to talk. However, I learned from Germany’s history that my country raped and bombed the rest of Europe. I mean, what we did to the Poles, French, Belgians, and all other countries in Europe, was terrible, but there was still a way out of this and reconciliation. We are members of a civilized society now.

Even while the conflict is ongoing, we need to think of times after the war and be ready to be open to those who want to be open with us. I am not talking about an appeasement.

However, there should be a consensus in Russia that the invasion was a terrible mistake. There should be a formal process to educate Russians about this, like it happened in Germany.

For example, I learned about the Holocaust in school. It was a big part of my school education. The Israelis, for example, acknowledge this today. They say, “Look, other countries that had a fascist historyshied away from facing it, like the Vichy regime in France, the collaborators in the Netherlands, and a Dutch SS battalion”. If, like Germany, a country faces their history through studies and public statements, there is a chance for reconciliation. However, for the moment, I understand why people don’t want to hear this.

— Your answer was very personal. I also felt that yesterday’s performance was very personal for you. Even the pieces that you’ve sung many times, like Vivaldi’s Stabat Mater (your first recording was in 1995, and you made a new one this year) and Bach’s cantata “Ich Habe Genug” felt the same to me. Do you think that today’s war context gave these pieces new meanings when you performed them in Kyiv?

In the past, I always talked about the relevance of culture and arts, what they do to human beings, and how important they are to teach us empathy, look in the mirror, and recognize ourselves, our weaknesses, and our mistakes.

In comedy, at the movie theater, we laugh at our weaknesses and learn something. In tragedy, we see that people face difficult choices and it makes us think. The Stabat Mater talks about the suffering of a mother who loses her child, which is why the piece is so popular. People can relate to a loss.

When I sing Stabat Mater in Kyiv today, a piece about a mother losing her son, it gets a different significance. It is a much more powerful statement, and it is a message from Vivaldi to the 22nd of November 2024. He talks to us through his music and sends us this message. That’s something I’ve always talked about and experienced on some level. I get feedback from listeners, who say what the music means to them, and so on.

Однак вчора мене осяяло. Я ніколи так сильно не відчував мету своєї професії, того, що я роблю, мету музики й наших колективних зусиль на сцені як музикантів у спілкуванні з аудиторією, як вчора. Після концерту розмовляв з дружиною і сказав їй, що вчорашня подія змінила моє життя. Я завжди пам’ятатиму її. Це була не просто чергова концертна поїздка, вона вплинула на мене на багатьох рівнях і змусила замислитися.

However, yesterday it hit me. I’ve never felt the purpose of my profession, what I do, the purpose of music, and our collective effort on stage as musicians in communicating with the audience that strongly as yesterday. I talked to my wife last night and said that yesterday’s event was life changing, something that I will always remember. This was not just another concert trip; it worked on many levels and made me think. I have not yet come to my conclusion and am still processing it. Of course, it will affect my life and what I stand for, and I will most likely be even more of a fundamentalist musician. This is so important, and I’ve experienced it. Arts might be another factor in the process of reconciliation. Look at the East, West, and even Barenboim’s orchestra, where young Palestinians and Israelis play together.

We, as musicians, long ago solved many political problems. We play in groups with everybody: Asians, Americans, blacks, and whites. The whole world plays in one orchestra because we found a common language. I often think that it’s not so complicated when I’m on stage. I’m aware that the world is complicated, but for us musicians, cooperating within this complexity is already a reality.

— The encore to your concert was a Ukrainian chant, “Maty Myloserda”, which is also about the Virgin Mary. It was like an arc to the Stabat Mater, a crying, mournful Mary. But, in the end, we were praying that the Virgin Mary would be kind to us. It was so touching, and I thank you for this encore. What were your feelings when you were performing it?

It was Roman Melish’s idea. I looked at the music and agreed to perform it. I pray every day with my daughter before bed. We always pray to her guardian angel and to the Virgin Mary. On top of music’s cultural communication and non-specific religious spirituality, I have something for myself that I think is very tangible. It’s my belief that I have a guardian angel and that somebody will hear me if I pray to the Virgin Mary. Whether or not this entity wears a white dress and looks like the one that appeared in Fatima or Lourdes, it’s a mother figure in which I can confide.

There’s always talk in the Catholic Church that the Virgin Mary has become like a second goddess, the so-called “Co-Redemptrix”. Sometimes the cardinals think that the cult in Fatima and Lourdes is a bit critical. Why? Because we all want to feel motherly love, especially in times of great distress. The mother is Mama. I think the soldiers cry for their mother as well, even if they’re 30 years old, because the safest place they ever felt was inside the body of their mother. That makes it so special.

Andreas Scholl and Roman Melish. Photo by Ruslan Synhaewsky

I don’t want to impose my beliefs on anyone. I don’t want to say that you need to pray to the Virgin Mary. Rather, do it if you want. I don’t like people who approach me and tell me, “Andreas, Jesus loves you, or this or that”. I always tell them that I have my religion, and “you should be happy with yours”.

— Let’s discuss your voice. Countertenors are very common now, and many people are studying countertenor singing. However, it was rather unusual when you started your career in the 90s. You were the one who made countertenors popular, and your headlining at BBC Proms was a sign that countertenors are here. Does being a countertenor require a physiological ability, or can you learn countertenor singing?

It’s like with other voices; everybody can sing a bit. However, not everybody can become an opera singer, even with much training. I compare it to a photo model, like Claudia Schiffer. She’s gorgeous and I’m sure she’s aware that, at the root of her success, lies something she did not create herself. There was lots of hard work involved and she’s a super-intelligent businesswoman. However, her success would not have been possible if she hadn’t looked the way she looks. I think it’s the same with singers.

The human voice is a very special instrument, and it triggers emotions. We reveal so much about our personalities through the sounds of our voices. Let’s say you are calling your friend in a foreign country and have a bad phone connection. You know your friend’s voice and hear him speak briefly. You ask what’s wrong and whether he is depressed. So, the inflections in the human voice give away so much.

That’s what I call a gift. For example, a photo model needs a gift of physical beauty, and a singer needs a certain gift of vocal beauty. I don’t mean beauty in the sense of a beautiful sound but something that triggers emotional response in the audience.

If you lack that vocal beauty, you can compensate with interpretation, but the basis of the voice needs to be there. The same is true for countertenors. It’s not something you can achieve exclusively with hard work. There needs to be a physiological disposition that enables you to work with a basic instrument and develop it. If the basic instrument is not suited to become a professional countertenor, all the work you put into it will not make it better.

— What role does age play for countertenors? There is a myth that countertenors can sing only till age 35, 40, or 50. However, there are different videos, for example, of Gérard Lesne, who sings beautifully even now. You mentioned that you are 57 and in perfect form. Is age so important for countertenors?

I can’t speak for all countertenors. However, I had a fantastic teacher who told me that you yourself decide how long you will sing. You are like a tennis player who plays every tournament and then retires early if you sing every concert that’s offered to you and have no time to relax in between concerts, or if you sing a repertoire that’s too hard for your voice (like only dramatic opera roles). Like a tennis player who takes time between tournaments to recover and select his tournaments, a singer must choose his repertoire wisely to sing for a long time.

It’s no secret that a sign of our times is fast speed and instant fame in casting shows. As a first semester singing student, you can’t have a website resembling Cecilia Bartoli’s. Appearance, speed, pushing yourself forward, and ambition are common, but not good for the voice. There were many singers that we thought were fantastic and amazing ten years ago and that they would be the next big stars but, suddenly, they disappeared. So, it’s a choice.

We need a strategy to sing for a long time. Choice of repertoire is important. Always perform easily within your comfort zone and don’t push your limits.

Don’t make a typical student mistake, having a good singing lesson with a very difficult piece and then sing it in a concert the following week. A piece needs to grow and be super solid before presenting it to an audience. These are choices combined with physiology that enable you to sing longer.

Your technique must be better the older you get. As a young singer, your metabolism is quick. You sleep long in the morning and are fit if you are 20 years old, go to a party, and drink too much. It takes me three days to get over it if I drink too much. Healing takes much longer if I break a leg. These are all factors I must consider, and I must have recreational periods.

You will recover quickly if you oversing and tire your voice as a young singer. It takes longer to recover if you are older, and the damage is more significant. You need a super solid technique, avoid oversinging your voice, and a wisely chosen repertoire. I don’t do much opera any longer because it demands so much ofvoice to overcome pressure and volume of an orchestra in virtuosic arias. I ‘ve done that and I can calmly say that I’ve proven I can sing fast, loud and high. Now I do what I like and what’s good for my voice because I want to keep on singing. I think those are secrets to longevity for a countertenor or any voice.

— You’re not just a vocalist, but a singing actor and a musician. Many people know you as a Baroque musician, but probably few are aware that you love to sing pop and electronic music. You told me about your 16 synthesizers. I listened to this music, and it was marvelous and so unexpected. We know the CD Andreas Scholl Goes Pop. Please tell us about your interest and why you are interested in it.

As a teenager, I was always into electronic pop music before I started playing baroque music. I liked Howard Jones, OMD, Erasure, New Order, Pet Shop Boys, and Yazoo. Everybody who worked with synthesizers was my hero. When I was 16, I bought my first synthesizer, a Casio ZZ 1000, which was affordable at the time.

I don’t know what it is. It’s a fascination with creating sounds electronically, programming a synthesizer with your sounds, making a song with it, composing something, and recording your vocals. It started with a tape machine that my father had, a synthesizer (a Commodore 64) and the sequencer module. I got a second synthesizer and a drum computer.

Then, when I went to Basel, I thought,” What a pity! In this rental apartment, I cannot do my pop music. I need to give up my hobby in a way”. The first day I walked into the music Academy, I saw an “Electronische studio” sign in the cafeteria, and walked in. There was a man there, who was later my boss, the director Thomas Kessler, a composer and electronic music pioneer. He greeted me and asked what I was doing in the studio. I answered that I started my studies at the Schola Cantorum for Early music but was into recording technology and synthesizers. He said, “Do you know something about MIDI?” I answered, “Yeah, sequencer and all that.”

Thomas Kessler said, “We’re looking for a MIDI assistant for all our MIDI instruments”. I got the job and was a member of that studio for seven years. I met such interesting contemporary composers and helped them write some experimental electronic music, assisting on the technical side.

We did live amplification. I met Ravi Shankar and made a live sound for him. It was a wonderful parallel universe to Early music studies. I started my own workstation in the studio since I had access to instruments that I would have never been able to afford, like Yamaha’s first digital mixing console. We had two of them, and I could use them almost exclusively.

I left that studio, unfortunately, because I was not a student anymore, and rented a basement somewhere in Basel. I needed a small mixer and some speakers. I made a list of what I needed on top of stuff that I had at the time. I started my own basement studio, and it expanded. Now, at home, I have a professional recording studio. We have a Steinway, a harpsichord, and a large collection of microphones. I’m obsessed with microphones. I collect them and continue doing my pop songs, ballads, faster stuff, and everything. I love the process of sitting at the piano and coming up with an idea. I frequently listen to older music that I recorded and wonder how I got the idea to do it!

I just play on the keyboard. I’m not a good keyboard player but I push the keys until I hear what I want to hear. I have a pretty good idea of where the next progression lies, and I push the keys until I hear what I have in my mind. I then record my songs, mix them, and master them. If I release my music professionally, I now have an expert who masters and releases the music for me.

Electronic pop music is a big love of my musical life and my hobby, but unfortunately, I don’t have much time. I hope I can finish a couple of songs I’ve already prepared before Christmas and release them online, hopefully with a video clip. I do my own video clips as well. I still hope that I have a pop career before I’m 60.

— Your career demonstrated that being a Baroque musician is not the only way for a singer. You could be a musician in a broader sense. In my opinion, other people must realize this. My friends told me that they realized, after your master calls, that they don’t need to choose one vocal style as musicians. You just should sing naturally and can be a musician in every style.

Style is a dangerous word. What does style mean if I start singing Bach’s aria? This means usually that young singers copy what other singers have done before them. Then the mannerisms of Early music singing are called style. I don’t think that’s what they’re supposed to do.

I think that style is perhaps something that’s highly individual and that there are as many styles of Baroque singing as there are Baroque singers.

The ultimate challenge is to ask yourself questions when you open a new piece of music, whether it’s Schubert’s, Dowland’s songs, or Bach’s or Handel’s arias. Who am I when I sing this? Who’s talking? Whom am I talking to? Is that entity present? Is it a contemplation? Is it a monologue? Is it an accusation? Is it a love aria?

Musically, you must know where the phrase evolves and what the basso offers you. Then I think rhetorically, as a singing actor. My teacher said that if you know how to speak it, you will know how to sing it.

I imagine I’m in a theater. I read the words of my music, giving them the meaning of a theater actor. This provides 90% of my interpretation and is an expression of my ideas of an aria. It’s not a style in the sense that if you see this phrase, you need to do that. A long note doesn’t always mean messa di voce. Early music singers often see a long note and jump on it, like there are no other ways. No, a long note can also be decrescendo, or it can just stay and slowly develop. There are so many different possibilities.

— Andreas, I hope you enjoyed your stay in Kyiv despite all the alarms and sleepless nights. You mentioned that you are planning to come back. Could you tell us about that, or is it too early?

I want to come back, and I am quite confident that we can arrange something for next year, like another master class and a concert. The question would be about repertoire and whether I bring an accompanist, my wife, or Edin Karamazov, but I will be back. If you want me!

This material was created and published thanks to a grant from the Shevchenko Scientific Society of America to The Claquers Media.

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